Category Archives: Plato

Even More on Dialectic

At the beginning of the first post “On Dialectic,” I raised the question of why I put so much into such posts. I propose now a couple of answers.

  1. I want to collect all evidence for what I am investigating – currently dialectic in Plato’s Republic. As Arthur Conan Doyle (1859–1930) has Sherlock Holmes say in A Study in Scarlet (1887; Wordsworth Classics, 2004),

    It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.

    And yet in Religion and Philosophy (1916), Collingwood states “the fundamental axiom of all thinking,”

    namely that whatever exists stands in some definite relation to the other things that exist.

    Thus “all the evidence” is everything in the world.

  2. I am engaged in such self-defense as a certain Islamic philosopher is, by the account of Strauss in Persecution and the Art of Writing (1952):

    Fārābī avails himself then of the specific immunity of the commentator or of the historian in order to speak his mind concerning grave matters in his “historical” works, rather than in the works in which he speaks in his own name.

Cloud with several lobes above deciduous trees in leaf
View from our balcony
Sanatçılar Sitesi, Tarabya, Istanbul
Saturday, July 8, 2023

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More on Dialectic

In Book I of Plato’s Republic, Socrates distinguishes between two ways to respond to a disagreement. The two parties can:

  1. Have a debate, to be judged by a third party.
  2. Work with one another to resolve the disagreement.

The latter would seem to be dialectic, although Socrates does not call it that. I said this last time, when I also noted that Socrates does refer to dialectic as such in Book V; but I deferred investigation of the passage till now.

An elaborate flower
Saturday, June 24, 2022
Atatürk Kent Ormanı
Tarabya, Sarıyer, İstanbul

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On Dialectic

This is about dialectic in Plato’s Republic and today. There’s a lot here, and in another post I may investigate why that is; meanwhile, I note words of Serge Lang (1927–2005) in the Foreward of Algebra (third edition, 1993):

Unfortunately, a book must be projected in a totally ordered way on the page axis, but that’s not the way mathematics “is”, so readers have to make choices how to reset certain topics in parallel for themselves, rather than in succession.

From socialism to liberalism and perhaps back

The word “dialectic” has the air of a technical term. It intimidated me in the eighth grade, when I chose communism as my topic for a paper in political geography, and I found myself consulting a big book on dialectical materialism. My main source ended up being the Communist Manifesto, which says nothing of dialectic as such.

The Manifesto may take up dialectic implicitly, as by saying in the beginning,

Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

Perhaps one would refer to the ongoing fight between oppressor and oppressed as dialectical. However, dialogue being conversation, I take dialectic to be the art of conversing; fighting is something else.

Two curled-up cats, one on the seat of a motorcycle parked on the sidewalk in front of two joined houses, the other on top of the low wall between the fronts of the houses
Saturday, April 16, 2022
Muvezzi Caddesi, Serencebey, Beşiktaş, İstanbul

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Drone

I continue to review and revise some notes I made during a recent reading of Plato’s Republic. The reading was with a group of people on four continents (Africa, Asia, Europe, and North America), meeting weekly, by means of Zoom, from June, 2022, till May, 2023; I joined only in August.

Black and white cat standing on dirt path through green foliage turns head left to look at viewer
Şalcıkır Parkı, Tarabya, Istanbul
Wednesday, May 24, 2023

My last post included a summary in some detail of Books I–VII, with a terser summary of the remaining Books VIII–X. I asked what Plato hoped to accomplish with the Republic, because if he meant to inspire dictators, he seemed to have succeeded with Ruhollah Mostafavi Musavi (a.k.a. Ruhollah Khomeini, 1900–89), Saloth Sâr (a.k.a. Pol Pot, 1925–98), and the like. But then is Plato to be blamed if such men did not pay attention to Books VIII and IX, where even the best state is shown to devolve into tyranny?

Here I look at a passage in Book IX that struck me when I read it in Robin Waterfield’s 1998 translation in the Oxford World’s Classics edition. This is at 572e–3a, in the account of how the son of the democratic father becomes tyrannical:

When these black magicians, these creators of dictators, realize that there’s only one way they’re going to gain control of the young man, they arrange matters until they implant in him a particular lust, to champion the rest of his desires which are too idle to do more than share out anything that readily comes their way. And don’t you think this kind of lust is exactly like a great, winged drone?

Waterfield is interpreting, but justifiably, I think. I’ll look at the Greek later, along with a number of other translations.

Meanwhile, the passage has me thinking that desire is not normally able to satisfy itself. It is a barnacle or anemone, sitting and waiting for nutriment to come to it.

Similar cat feeding at pile of kibble
Şalcıkır Parkı again
Friday, June 2, 2023

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Why the Polity

Why did Plato write the Republic? I give here not an answer, but elaborations on the question. I drafted these during the latter of two readings of the Republic, engaged in with two different groups of people in the last two years with the Catherine Project.

A road down to the Bosphorus past a mosque; a few roofs among trees
Village whose name I don’t know
between Yeniköy and Tarabya, Sarıyer, Istanbul
Behind me is a gated community
where every house has a swimming pool
Tuesday, May 23, 2023

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Dawn (Iliad Book XXIV)

The games of Book XXIII of the Iliad have not been enough to let Achilles sleep. He tosses and turns,

yearning for the manhood and valorous might of Patroclus, thinking on all he had wrought with him and all the woes he had borne, passing through wars of men and the grievous waves. (lines 6–9)

It occurs to me to ask: Is that what we call a description? It is a “setting down in words”; however, if it is a “verbal portrait,” this only goes to show what a remarkable power we have, to know what somebody is thinking by how he looks.

Small white flowers among leaves and vines
Atatürk Kent Ormanı
Tarabya, Sarıyer, İstanbul
May 11, 2023

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Grief (Iliad Book XXII)

The fascinating moments in the Iliad are when somebody has to make a decision.

  • Achilles is a killing machine in Books XX and XXI; but back in Book I, enraged by his commanding officer, Achilles could nonetheless decide not to slay him.
  • At the end of Book XXI, Agenor was tempted to hide from Achilles, somewhere away from the walls of Troy; instead he served as a decoy to draw Achilles away from the city gates.
  • Now, in Book XXII, the other Trojans are running in through those gates like fawns. Hector is having trouble deciding whether to join them.

Wall assembled haphazardly of rubble, dressed stone, brick, and tile; weeds grow out here and there
Wednesday morning, April 12, 2023
Akarsu Sokağı (“Runningwater Street”)
Tarabya, Sarıyer, Istanbul

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Mind (Iliad Book XVII)

At the end of Book XVI of the Iliad, Hector

  • pulled his spear from the body of Patroclus,
  • took off in pursuit of Automedon, his victim’s charioteer, who was being drawn by Achilles’s immortal horses.

Around the mossy trunk of a plane tree, four chickens—two white, one brown, one black—scratch in the little dirt that has been left uncovered by the setts that pave a road through a settlement
Postacı Halil Sokağı (Street of Halil the Postman)
Tarabya (Θεραπειά), Sarıyer, Istanbul
Thursday morning, March 2, 2023

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Femininity (Iliad Book XIV)

An editor of the Iliad might remove Book XIII, as I said last time; however, the book has

  • its own intrinsic interest, in its portrait of the two brothers, Hector and Paris;
  • a function in Homer’s main story, by showing that Achilles’s labor strike can fail.

The strike can fail through the prowess of scabs. Poseidon encourages crossing the picket line. In Book XIV,

  • Agamemnon worries that not enough men are crossing the line;
  • Hera uses her feminine wiles against the virility of her husband;
  • her brother can now pursue strike-breaking more openly.

A crow behind him, a helmeted man sits on motorcycle contemplating his mobile while the Bosphorus, and Asia beyond, is to his left At the edge of the Bosphorus, a woman squats to photograph a gull with her mobile

Yeniköy (Νεοχώριον), Sarıyer, Istanbul
Tuesday afternoon, February 21, 2023

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On Homer’s Iliad Book I

In Book I of the Iliad, Achilles restrains an impulse to run a sword through Agamemnon.

That may be the greatest act in the whole epic. I say so, having recently completed a reading of Njal’s Saga, which features a lot of impulsive killing. Now I am embarking on the Iliad again, a book at a time. Here I take up Book I, some comparisons with the saga, and some connections with Plato, Augustine, and Collingwood.

I wrote here about Homer’s epic, book by book, between April, 2017, and September, 2019. I was reading Chapman’s Elizabethan translation. In my account of Book I from then, there are details that do not otherwise stand out to me now, when

  • I am reading mainly Murray’s translation in the Loeb Classical Library, and
  • comparisons with Njal’s Saga are in mind.

Bench on concrete wharf, looking out across a bay to the hills beyond; coast guard vessel in view
Sarıyer, Istanbul (European side)
Loeb Iliad, volume I
November 25, 2022

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